Naragan
RPK, let me join in the debate.
I applaud you for your open and venturesome persona. You add a lot of color to our political scene. You have a lot of connections within the system –you do get more information than most of us can. You are articulate. You are bold, very bold. I must concede all of this to you.
But one thing we must all be clear about is that no one has monopoly over perceptions of the truth, for that is just an impossibility. You cannot think the truth you have is any more true than the truth I or any body else have. All we have is our perception of the truth which truth is a distorted version of reality fitting in with our need for self preservation.
So, please pardon me, if I accuse you of being too self assured in your version of the truth. In your version of the truth, it is the leaders of Hindraf that are a problem not the Hindraf grassroots.
This is always the case isn’t it, when you want something and a leader group does not allow you beyond them to the common group. Then what do you say, these leaders are the problem, these outsiders are the problem, only a few of them are the problem, the rest are OK and so on. Didn’t the Brits say that about all those fellows who opposed them when they ran this country. Didn’t the whites say that about Mandela and his gang of ANC leaders in South Africa. Didn’t the white establishment say that about Malcolm X in the United States of America. What is the difference between all of that and what you are now saying.
From your writings of the last two days, this is what I can conclude – you are exasperated at the fact that the Hindraf leaders are turning away from supporting PR in the Hulu Selangor by elections. PR needs all the Indian votes to have a clear win and the Hindraf leaders do no want to intervene for PR. And you know exactly which Hindraf Leaders do not want to intervene –you are not acting dumb here, I must say.
Actually if you can listen simply to what the Hindraf leaders are saying, it actually is not that complicated to get their support and the support of the people they lead. They will not be a problem any more. And the leaders of Hindraf know exactly what they are talking about, so it is all very simple.
All this while we had conniving leaders or corrupt leaders who would go along with the Tuans and the Towkays. In Hindraf lexicon we call such “disempowered” leaders Mandores. They cannot and do not represent – the poor and dispossessed. The Hindraf leaders that you call a problem will not be corrupted no more, not with seats, not with concessions, not with the spoils of power. They seek nothing short of equal rights, equal treatment and equal opportunities. They want some things more fundamental. That, is the problem you see.
There is a mismatch in paradigms.
You call us racists – yet Hindraf is totally committed to article 8 of the constitution which provides for equality for all citizens. You equate us with Perkasa, their position is a complete reverse of ours on Article 8, and yet you in all your wisdom equate us with them. How about you and Anwar, can both of you come in the open and say you are committed to Article 8 and openly declare that you would dismantle any race based policies that benefit any particular race. If you both can say this openly then the first step to closing the gap in our paradigms would have been taken.
How can you call us racists when we have such a clear position on Article 8. Racists are those that subscribe to the belief that one race is superior to all others. RPK, can you quote one time when Hindraf has asserted that, just one time. I can recount numerous instances in the past where Anwar has been guiltyof that.
And you RPK are a racist not by commission but by omission. What specific issue have you championed of the marginalized Indians per se. Don’t want to hear about the lobbying you did for representatives in the last GE. We are talking here about representation not representatives. Three days ago two Indians were shot dead in cold blood by the police – do you know or do you care, where is the outrage? Where, man?
You call us racists on that basis, because of our narrow focus on Indian issues, what about your total non focus on these same issues. And this is not a lament. We have gone past that. We will take care of all that ourselves even if you call us racists.
But now if you want for things to thaw and towards alignment of paradigms then the first thing is to stop playing games and get real. Stop denying knowledge of who the true Hindraf leaders are. As long as you play this game we can only have a stalemate. In playing your games you lose valuable time. The Hindraf leaders may raise hard issues,but these are real issues, ask any man on the road and you do know a lot of them, just ask them and you will get a earful
Get your dear friend Anwar Ibrahim to sit down and talk with us. As long as we do not talk in forthright fashion we will not go past this stalemate and we in Hindraf/HRP have resolved that we will go our own way no matter. And by the way, we do not see a dead end, we see new possibilities ahead. We are not in a hurry. We are set for the long haul.
So instead of just getting exasperated and resorting to Hindraf bashing, maybe you should become constructive and see how your good friend Anwar Ibrahim can concede to some of the demands of Hindraf that is now within the 4 States’ authority. The ball has been in Anwar’s court for some time now already. See if you can move it.
RPK, let me join in the debate.
I applaud you for your open and venturesome persona. You add a lot of color to our political scene. You have a lot of connections within the system –you do get more information than most of us can. You are articulate. You are bold, very bold. I must concede all of this to you.
But one thing we must all be clear about is that no one has monopoly over perceptions of the truth, for that is just an impossibility. You cannot think the truth you have is any more true than the truth I or any body else have. All we have is our perception of the truth which truth is a distorted version of reality fitting in with our need for self preservation.
So, please pardon me, if I accuse you of being too self assured in your version of the truth. In your version of the truth, it is the leaders of Hindraf that are a problem not the Hindraf grassroots.
This is always the case isn’t it, when you want something and a leader group does not allow you beyond them to the common group. Then what do you say, these leaders are the problem, these outsiders are the problem, only a few of them are the problem, the rest are OK and so on. Didn’t the Brits say that about all those fellows who opposed them when they ran this country. Didn’t the whites say that about Mandela and his gang of ANC leaders in South Africa. Didn’t the white establishment say that about Malcolm X in the United States of America. What is the difference between all of that and what you are now saying.
From your writings of the last two days, this is what I can conclude – you are exasperated at the fact that the Hindraf leaders are turning away from supporting PR in the Hulu Selangor by elections. PR needs all the Indian votes to have a clear win and the Hindraf leaders do no want to intervene for PR. And you know exactly which Hindraf Leaders do not want to intervene –you are not acting dumb here, I must say.
Actually if you can listen simply to what the Hindraf leaders are saying, it actually is not that complicated to get their support and the support of the people they lead. They will not be a problem any more. And the leaders of Hindraf know exactly what they are talking about, so it is all very simple.
All this while we had conniving leaders or corrupt leaders who would go along with the Tuans and the Towkays. In Hindraf lexicon we call such “disempowered” leaders Mandores. They cannot and do not represent – the poor and dispossessed. The Hindraf leaders that you call a problem will not be corrupted no more, not with seats, not with concessions, not with the spoils of power. They seek nothing short of equal rights, equal treatment and equal opportunities. They want some things more fundamental. That, is the problem you see.
There is a mismatch in paradigms.
You call us racists – yet Hindraf is totally committed to article 8 of the constitution which provides for equality for all citizens. You equate us with Perkasa, their position is a complete reverse of ours on Article 8, and yet you in all your wisdom equate us with them. How about you and Anwar, can both of you come in the open and say you are committed to Article 8 and openly declare that you would dismantle any race based policies that benefit any particular race. If you both can say this openly then the first step to closing the gap in our paradigms would have been taken.
How can you call us racists when we have such a clear position on Article 8. Racists are those that subscribe to the belief that one race is superior to all others. RPK, can you quote one time when Hindraf has asserted that, just one time. I can recount numerous instances in the past where Anwar has been guiltyof that.
And you RPK are a racist not by commission but by omission. What specific issue have you championed of the marginalized Indians per se. Don’t want to hear about the lobbying you did for representatives in the last GE. We are talking here about representation not representatives. Three days ago two Indians were shot dead in cold blood by the police – do you know or do you care, where is the outrage? Where, man?
You call us racists on that basis, because of our narrow focus on Indian issues, what about your total non focus on these same issues. And this is not a lament. We have gone past that. We will take care of all that ourselves even if you call us racists.
But now if you want for things to thaw and towards alignment of paradigms then the first thing is to stop playing games and get real. Stop denying knowledge of who the true Hindraf leaders are. As long as you play this game we can only have a stalemate. In playing your games you lose valuable time. The Hindraf leaders may raise hard issues,but these are real issues, ask any man on the road and you do know a lot of them, just ask them and you will get a earful
Get your dear friend Anwar Ibrahim to sit down and talk with us. As long as we do not talk in forthright fashion we will not go past this stalemate and we in Hindraf/HRP have resolved that we will go our own way no matter. And by the way, we do not see a dead end, we see new possibilities ahead. We are not in a hurry. We are set for the long haul.
So instead of just getting exasperated and resorting to Hindraf bashing, maybe you should become constructive and see how your good friend Anwar Ibrahim can concede to some of the demands of Hindraf that is now within the 4 States’ authority. The ball has been in Anwar’s court for some time now already. See if you can move it.
